SPIRITUALITY/RELIGION - Obama NSA Now Wiretapping the Prayers of All Christians

Kansas resident Amy Grant noticed that every time she went to her local prayer booth to pray, she would suddenly develop ‘intense migraine’ pain.  New revelations from Edward Snowden reveal how Obama and the NSA have developed a way to ‘wiretap’ the prayers of all Christians and archive what people have been praying for in a large database.

The END TIMES are truly upon us, my friends.   The Age of Liberal Darkness is here.  The Bible warns that the day shall come when Christians will be hunted down and persecuted by non-believers, forced to accept the Mark of the Beast lest they get tortured.

Today when I woke up, I prayed for the usual:  1)  Obama to get impeached 2) The Atlanta Falcons to win the Super Bowl 3) A safe upcoming school year without any tragic stories 4)  China’s economic demise 5)  A good breakfast.

It is terrifying for me to know that my simple prayer, which maybe lasted about 2 minutes, was probably wiretapped by Agents of Obama and there is some government database that has an archived recording of my conversation with God.

For more - http://christwire.org/2014/08/obama-nsa-now-wiretapping-the-prayers-of-all-christians/

SPIRITUALITY/RELIGION: Paul Prather: How you tip a waitress speaks to your beliefs

I don't even know her, but the way she acted might be more the rule among overtly Christian diners rather than the exception. I've been hearing stories like this for years from past or present waiters and waitresses.

In the restaurant business, it's almost a truism: People who make a point of referring to their religion often prove to be the stingiest, crankiest customers.

This is not some vicious blasphemy propagated by heathens trying to defame the holy church.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/02/08/2508148/paul-prather-how-you-tip-a-waitress.html

ON OLDERMUSICGEEK'S STUPID ENTERTAINMENT STUFF: "MUSIC: My Quick Thoughts On Yellowbrick Magazine's 8 For 8 Show At People's

ON OLDERMUSICGEEK'S STUPID TESTS AND QUIZZES: "PERSONALITY TRAIT: The Catholic Identity Quiz " (just click here)

HUMOR and SPIRITUALITY/RELIGION: Islam vs. Christianity

I got this from a link from GodlessGirl on Twitter. - OlderMusicGeek

POLITICS and HUMOR: A Storm Is Coming?

"Prop 8 - The Musical" starring Jack Black, John C. Reilly, and many more... from Jack Black

SPIRITUALITY/RELIGION, CULTURE/SOCIETY and POLITICS: America Becoming Less Christian, Survey Finds

This is from CNN. I edited down some. - OlderMusicGeek

CNN) -- America is a less Christian nation than it was 20 years ago, and Christianity is not losing out to other religions, but primarily to a rejection of religion altogether, a survey published Monday found.

Survey finds percentage of of Americans identifying themselves as Christian has fallen over two decades.

Seventy-five percent of Americans call themselves Christian, according to the American Religious Identification Survey from Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut. In 1990, the figure was 86 percent.

William Donohue, president of the Catholic League said he thinks a radical shift towards individualism over the last quarter-century has a lot to do it.

"The three most dreaded words are thou shalt not," he told Lou Dobbs. "Notice they are not atheists -- they are saying I don't want to be told what to do with my life."

At the same time there has been an increase in the number of people expressing no religious affiliation.

The survey also found that "born-again" or "evangelical" Christianity is on the rise, while the percentage who belong to "mainline" congregations such as the Episcopal or Lutheran churches has fallen.

One in three Americans consider themselves evangelical, and the number of people associated with mega-churches has skyrocketed from less than 200,000 in 1990 to more than 8 million in the latest survey.
Watch CNN report on new study »

The rise in evangelical Christianity is contributing to the rejection of religion altogether by some Americans, said Mark Silk of Trinity College.

"In the 1990s, it really sunk in on the American public generally that there was a long-lasting 'religious right' connected to a political party, and that turned a lot of people the other way," he said of the link between the Republican Party and groups such as the Moral Majority and Focus on the Family.
Watch author on mixing religion and politics »

"In an earlier time, people who would have been content to say, 'Well, I'm some kind of a Protestant,' now say 'Hell no, I won't go,'" he told CNN.

And, he said, it is now more socially acceptable than it once was to admit having no religion.

"You're not declaring yourself a total pariah. The culture has changed in a way that makes it easier to say, 'No, I don't have a religion.'" Obama mentioned people without faith in his inaugural address in January, making him the first president to do so.

In the survey, one in five Americans said they have no religious identity or did not answer the question.

The rise in what the survey authors call "nones" is the only trend reflected in every single state in the study, Silk said.

"We don't see anything else in the survey that is nationwide," he told CNN.

Another finding is the percentage of Catholics in the United States has remained steady at about one in four since 1990, while the percentage of other Christians has plummeted from 60 percent to 50 percent.

The survey polled 54,461 Americans between February and November of last year. Pollsters conducted the research in both English and Spanish.

The survey is the third in a series, following polls in 1990 and 2001.

E-mail to a friend

Share this on:

Mixx Digg Facebook del.icio.us reddit StumbleUpon MySpace

| Mixx it | Share

All About Religion • Christianity • Islam • Judaism

A link to the original and complete article

CULTURE/SOCIETY: Redesigning Christmas

This is from the NPR radio show, Studio 360. - OlderMusicGeek


December 05, 2008
Redesigning Christmas

The buzzword this year is change. But some things, like the traditions that surround the Christmas season, seem to remain the same. Kurt Andersen asked the design firm Pentagram to re-imagine the holiday beyond tinsel and holly. It goes something like this: drop the Santa, loose the red and green, play down the rampant commercialism and play up the message of peace and love.

View Pentagram's full Christmas redesign presentation.
Check out downloadable x.mas wrapping paper.
Then send an x.mas e-card to a friend!

(Originally aired: December 22, 2006)

Listen to the show from 2006 with a Robin Hitchcock Christmas Song, the techno tune "Unsilent Night", and a bit about

Some of the comments:
[5]
Posted by: Brandon Emerick December 06, 2008 - 10:31AM
Brooklyn

Fun and clever ideas! I'm all about the Xmas. Here's my contribution to your celebration:

Which is my re-imagining of the "yule log"...

[6]
Posted by: John Mc Donagh December 06, 2008 - 10:38AM
Brooklyn

I was happy to hear all week about the idea of redesigning Christmas but utterly disappointed in the actual segment in this week's show. You only dealt with the shallow image of Christmas and not the true meaning of this more pagan mid-winter festival.

Christians have merely grafted the birth of Christ onto the wonderful older northern European wintertime feast of plenty etc. It represented the darkest moment in the year having planted inside of it the brightest hope. The winter solstice, when the sun reaches the lowest point in the sky, ends this descent and begins the climb towards the warmth of the summer once again.

To an old, farming, hunting people it must have marked such a hope that things were turning around and that the cycle of life and of growth would once again begin.

It's not ironic that, this year, the death of the Bush 8-year-period (the lowest point in the past century) should be marked by the time of great hope and historic turn around.

[9]
Posted by: Adam December 08, 2008 - 12:23AM
Minnesota

How odd that Christmas would be redesigned by a company named after a pagan/demonic symbol.

A link to all my Christmas posts

Merry Christmas or whatever holiday you're celebrating!
MY CHRISTMAS INTERNET RADIO STATIONS
OlderMusicGeek Radio - Christmas Edition
OlderMusicGeek Radio - Christmas Rock and Punk Edition
OlderMusicGeek's Christmas QuickMix
powered by PANDORA
But if you don't have Pandora, you can hear some of songs at http://www.playlist.com/oldermusicgeek

CULTURE/SOCIETY and SPIRITUALITY/RELIGION: The "Merry Christmas" Debate

I got this from NerdGod on Twitter. I don't think he'll mind me reprinting it. - OlderMusicGeek

A Christmas Story

We rapidly approach Christmas, a holiday that's proved to be an issue of resentment in the last few years. Although I'd often encourage rational debate on theological issues--being of the belief that such conversations benefit theists and atheists alike--the usual "discussion" this time of the year is over an issue far more trivial then it's made out to be: "Happy Holidays" vs "Merry Christmas".

You see, there are people that feel that a term like "Happy Holidays" diminishes a sacred religious holiday such as Christmas. The argument is that when a store clerk, television station, etc. doesn't include "Christmas" in their greetings, it makes it seem like their faith is something of which they should be ashamed. In short, they take it personally.

I do understand this. There are some business that don't say "Merry Christmas" or openly decorate accordingly in fear of angering their customers. So "Merry Christmas" becomes "Seasons Greetings" and the annual office "Christmas Party" becomes the "Holiday Party". This, of course, fools no one and usually angers some of the Christians in the audience. However, these businesses and people aren't fighting a "war on Christmas" and are at best fighting a "war of political correctness" or simply attempting to be polite.

Still, I'd argue that Christmas is under attack, but not by secular humanists or "big business"--rather by the faithful Christians who took the holiday exclusively, allowed it to become federal, and fight to have corporations use the holiday in their advertising and store-fronts. Allow me to explain.

First, the birth of Christmas wasn't centered around Christians alone. It was a holiday created as an olive branch given by a largely pagan society to the emerging Christian faith. The idea of the holiday was to combine the winter solstice celebration of Yule (hence "Yule tidings") that the pagans had been celebrating with the birth of the Christian savior, Jesus of Nazareth--who, by the way, wasn't even born December 25th (the date was picked by Pope Sixtus III to "facilitate the acceptance of the faith by the pagan masses"). The holiday, of course, was later claimed as a sacred day by the Christians (and the Christians alone).

It could be said that the first REAL assault on the [Christian version of the] day came as time passed and Christmas became a day of more economic importance then spiritual. During the Great Depression, for example, Franklin Roosevelt proposed moving Thanksgiving to extend the holiday (see: Christmas) shopping season--an attempt greatly opposed by religious leaders at the time. Why? Well, the feeling was that their holiday was too sacred to be used as commercial fodder for businesses and the economy.

Strange how times change, huh?


What people have long failed to understand is that ideas like the separation of church and state was devised to protect the church as much as it was the state. If you really believed your faith to be of such value, then you wouldn't want it tainted by commercialism and politics. Instead you'd keep such valuable possessions close to your heart--far away from the sins of society.

"Happy Holidays" isn't devised to make you ashamed of who you are, it's devised to best exemplify the original meaning of Christmas--inclusion of different faiths. And, as an added benefit, it also allows those of you with faith to celebrate Christmas in an untainted form.


...That is, unless you faith really does require approval from Wal-Mart first.

A link to NerdGod's website
A link to the original post

A link to all my Christmas posts

Merry Christmas or whatever holiday you're celebrating!
MY CHRISTMAS INTERNET RADIO STATIONS
OlderMusicGeek Radio - Christmas Edition
OlderMusicGeek Radio - Christmas Rock and Punk Edition
OlderMusicGeek's Christmas QuickMix
powered by PANDORA
But if you don't have Pandora, you can hear some of songs at http://www.playlist.com/oldermusicgeek

CULTURE/SOCIETY: My "Tweets" From Twitter

@ilovealgebra - are you excited about the trees? or do you have a phobia of trees? 08:24 PM June 19, 2008 from web in reply to ilovealgebra

didn't sleep hardly at all last night. luckily, my daughter was sick and i was home with her until just now-her mom's home. took a nap. :) 12:26 PM June 19, 2008 from web

@puppyl0ve - what's with you and your obsessions with phils? 12:18 PM June 19, 2008 from web in reply to M0neyMen

@puppyl0ve - what are you doing in a place that snows in june?! 12:16 PM June 19, 2008 from web in reply to M0neyMen

@puppyl0ve - god, i went nuts when it snowed 3 times in april here - http://oldermusicgeek.blogs... 12:16 PM June 19, 2008 from web in reply to M0neyMen

remember how i missed my daughter on monday. guess who spent half the day with her and worked until 7:30pm to make up time cus she was sick! 08:46 PM June 18, 2008 from web

didn't have my daughter today! can't believe how much i got done! :) - and yes, i still miss her! 11:36 PM June 16, 2008 from web

i was exhausted all afternoon, so why can't i sleep now? 01:46 AM June 16, 2008 from web

what's with me getting strong christian twitter followers? don't believe the bible, and if there's a god, sure it's not the christian god! 02:03 PM June 15, 2008 from web

in case people are interested, here's my blog posts on jesus - http://oldermusicgeek.blogs... 02:03 PM June 15, 2008 from web

and my posts on christianity - http://oldermusicgeek.blogs... 02:02 PM June 15, 2008 from web

@ringernation - how the hell could you sleep during cloverfield. what's not to understand? big monster attacking manhattan, rescuing friend. 01:51 PM June 15, 2008 from web

@sushiday - congrats on graduating! 01:46 PM June 15, 2008 from web in reply to sushiday

forgot to mention-at the amusement park, saw 4 boys around a $5 bill discussing what they should do, not picking it up-only in the midwest! 06:05 AM June 15, 2008

looking at the everyone slot - and n3b(http://twitter.com/N3B) said earl gray tastes better cold - ew! 09:39 PM June 14, 2008 from web

@jmcoon - my daughter introduced me to "shake it" - i like that song! 09:36 PM June 14, 2008 from web

@jmcoon-how can you make fun of iowa when you live in MISSOURI. we may complain of iowa, but we can say at least we're not from missouri. :) 06:05 PM June 14, 2008 from web

i survived tween daughter's b-day party! 6 girls and 1 guy-she invited 3 but only 1 showed! exhausted-not like the amusement park, but... 06:04 PM June 14, 2008 from web

accidentally left a gal behind when we did miniature golf. thought we did on purpose, so i paid an extra round so they could golf with her. 06:03 PM June 14, 2008 from web

still have 2 extra tween girls until tomorrow morning. ugh! what racket in the car! 06:03 PM June 14, 2008 from web

so weird about (my home state) having wifi spots.*gives jm a dirty look* :) 05:58 PM June 14, 2008 from web

the leevee breached in our town, and part of the town had to have people evacuated! we even made the npr national news on the hour! 12:01 PM June 14, 2008 from web

party's in 2 hours-and everybody and their grandmothers keep calling me! aaaargh! do something useful people, like help the flood victims! 12:00 PM June 14, 2008 from web

that "tweet" about 3 tween girls spending the night makes me sound like some old pervert! 06:30 AM June 14, 2008 from web

busy weekend coming!working this morning. b-day party-mostly tween girls-in the afternoon.2 tween girls spending the night with my daughter! 06:29 AM June 14, 2008 from web

then after having 3 tween girls at my place all night, i have a big family function for dad's day! 06:28 AM June 14, 2008 from web

@jmcoon - better bumping into someone walking while texting - people who drive and text scare me! 06:23 AM June 14, 2008 from web

@sushiday - good luck moving before the dinner! 06:21 AM June 14, 2008 from web

got a new cube at work! the other quality control people had bigger cubes, but i was left in mine. and frankly didn't care 05:55 PM June 13, 2008 from web

but the extra space is nice - and the radio reception is a lot better. less interference from the machinery. i can hear my npr interviews! 05:54 PM June 13, 2008 from web

and if you do go to an amusement park in your 40s and do all the rides with the kids, it's a good idea to take the next day off! 08:54 PM June 12, 2008 from web

i am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sore. i feel battered and bruised. amusement parks are a lot harder on your body when you're in your 40's! 08:10 PM June 12, 2008 from web

the rain cleared up, so there wasn't many people at the amusement park. so the girls i took kept doing rides over. 08:10 PM June 12, 2008 from web

i am getting older. the rollercoaster with two loop-de-loops made me dizzy and groggy for 15 minutes. but i did go twice in a row! 08:09 PM June 12, 2008 from web

also did the other rollercoaster 3 times in a row - girls did it 4, but i said i'd wait for them! and they did the log ride like 12 times! 08:09 PM June 12, 2008 from web

my daughter got tickets for the local amusement park for being a cross guard. but they're for today only and it's pouring like mad! 11:28 AM June 11, 2008 from web

A link to my Twitter page

CULTURE/SOCIETY, POLITICS and ENTERTAINMENT: Wasteland Of The Free

I guess some won't find this the most appropriate song to play on Independence Day, but what Iris said back in 1996 is still unfortunately very true 12 years later. And if we love our country, we ought to do something about making this song less true. - OlderMusicGeek



Living in the wasteland of the free...
We got preachers dealing in politics and diamond mines
and their speech is growing increasingly unkind
They say they are Christ's disciples
but they don't look like Jesus to me
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
We got politicians running races on corporate cash
Now don't tell me they don't turn around and kiss them peoples' ass
You may call me old-fashioned
but that don't fit my picture of a true democracy
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
We got CEO's making two hundred times the workers' pay
but they'll fight like hell against raising the minimum wage
and if you don't like it, mister, they'll ship your job
to some third-world country 'cross the sea
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
Living in the wasteland of the free
where the poor have now become the enemy
Let's blame our troubles on the weak ones
Sounds like some kind of Hitler remedy
Living in the wasteland of the free
We got little kids with guns fighting inner city wars
So what do we do, we put these little kids behind prison doors
and we call ourselves the advanced civilization
that sounds like crap to me
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
We got high-school kids running 'round in Calvin Klein and Guess
who cannot pass a sixth-grade written test
but if you ask them, they can tell you
the name of every crotch on MTV
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
We kill for oil, then we throw a party when we win
Some guy refuses to fight, and we call THAT the sin
but he's standing up for what he believes in
and that seems pretty damned American to me
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
Living in the wasteland of the free
where the poor have now become the enemy
Let's blame our troubles on the weak ones
Sounds like some kind of Hitler remedy
Living in the wasteland of the free
While we sit gloating in our greatness
justice is sinking to the bottom of the sea
Living in the wasteland of the free
Living in the wasteland of the free
Living in the wasteland of the free



Here's a video that's been done recently to the song...



wastelandofthefree.com, a website inspired by the song
Iris Dement's home page

POLITICS: How to be a Good Democrat/Republican

I found this using StumbleUpon. It's from the blog, A Boy and His Computer. - OlderMusicGeek

Note: I didn't write the "How to be a Good Democrat" list, I received it in a forwarded e-mail, unattributed. I and one of my readers wrote the "How to be a Good Republican" list. See this blog post for more info.

How to be a good...

...Democrat:	...Republican:
You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding.	You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread because people are evil and should be punished.
You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th-graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.	You have to believe that evolution is a myth (despite the evidence of biochemistry and the fossil record) but that Intelligent Design theory should be taught in schools.
You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than U.S. nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese & North Korean communists.	You have to believe that there is no causal link between legal, easily-obtainable handguns and high murder rates.
You have to believe that there was no art before Federal funding.	You have to believe that unfunded arts and school programs are still subject to government control.
You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical, documented changes in the earth's climate and more affected by soccer moms driving SUVs.	You have to believe that global temperatures are completely unaffected by fossil fuel emissions, that the best way to save the national forests is to allow logging companies to cut down old-growth timber, and the best way to save endangered species is to allow trophy hunters and wildlife traders to import more of them.
You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural.	You have to believe that homosexuality is evil (despite the fact that it occurs in nature) and that women should stay at home to cook and bear children.
You have to be against capital punishment but support abortion on demand.	You have to be against abortion but support capital punishment.
You have to believe that businesses create oppression, and governments create prosperity.	You have to believe that corporations never purposely hurt anyone to make money.
You have to believe that hunters don't care about nature, but loony activists who have never been outside of San Francisco do.	You have to believe that hunting requires an automatic rifle.
You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it.	You have to believe that middle class income should be taxed, but capital gains and inherited wealth should not be.
You have to believe that the military, not corrupt politicians, start wars.	You have to believe that war is an acceptable solution to any economic or social problem.
You have to believe that the military is another political porkbarrel for wealthy campaign contributors of certain politicians.	You have to believe that everyone should support the troops - except when it comes to pay or benefits.
You have to believe the NRA is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of the Constitution.	You have to believe the NRA is good because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution.
You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.	You have to believe that taxes are for poor and middle class people, not the rich.
You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E.Lee, and Thomas Edison.	You have to believe that Oliver North and Monica Lewinsky are more important to American history than Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy.
You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not.	You have to believe that affirmative action is wrong, because everyone knows there's no more racism in America.
You have to believe that Hillary Clinton is normal and really a very nice person.	You have to believe that Ann Coulter is normal and really a very nice person.
You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.	You have to believe that the only reason supply-side economics hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.
You have to believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar and sex offender belonged in the White House.	You have to believe liberals telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar and draft-dodger belongs in the White House.
You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites, and bestiality should be constitutionally protected, and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal.	You have to believe that all Americans should be white heterosexual Christians.
You have to believe that illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese government is somehow in the best interest of the United States.	You have to believe that illegal Republican Party funding by corporations is somehow in the best interest of the United States.
You have to believe that this letter is part of a vast, right-wing conspiracy.	You have to believe that the media are biased toward liberals, despite the fact that all the major media outlets are owned by ultra-rich conservatives.

CULTURE SOCIETY (and sorta SPIRITUALITY/RELIGION): Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas

This is OlderMusicGeek here, not a reprinted article. :)

"Every time a person says Happy Holidays, an angel get AIDS!" - Jon Stewart? - Not sure if he said it first :) -

Well, since some of in such a tizzy about people saying "Happy Holidays", I am providing this December greeting as a public service....

Happy Christmas and/or Boxing Day and/or Kwanzaa and/or Hannakah and/or Bodhi Day and/or Sanghamitta Day and/or Shabe Cheleh and/or Makara Sankranti and/or Junkanoo and/or Dong Zhi and/or Toji and/or Soyal and/or Yule and/or Seva Zistane and/or Alban Arthan and/or Long Night and/or Mean Geimrech and/or Brumalia and/or Dies Natalis Solis Invicti and/or Saturnalia and/or Lenaea and/or Wren Day and/or Tekufah Tevet and/or Winter Solstice and/or any other December or winter solstice holidays i missed!

Oh, and Bah Humbug to those who don't celebrate the holidays! :)

But I'm sorry! Am I understanding wrong?! Are we suppose just shove a holiday that some people don't celebrate down their throat?

HUMOR and SPIRITUALITY/RELIGION: A Friendship Request My Brother Got on MySpace

My youngest brother, Harmonica 23, sent me this bulletin on MySpace. Thought it was funny enough to post! - OlderMusicGeek

Date:	Jun 24, 2007 09:34 PM
Subject	How Cool Am I?
Body:	Nothing Christians haven't been telling me for years!

CULTURE/SOCIETY and SPIRITUALITY/RELIGION: Nativity Display Message Board Action

Seinfeld 'Festivus' Display Vies With Nativity
By SARA KENNEDY, AP

BARTOW, Fla. (Dec. 23) - When a church group put a nativity scene on public property, officials warned it might open the door to other religious - and not-so-religious - displays. They were right.

Since the nativity was erected in Polk County, displays have gone up honoring Zoroastrianism and the fake holiday Festivus, featured on the TV show "Seinfeld."

The Polk County Commission voted 4-1 Wednesday to permit the nativity scene to remain across the street from the courthouse, as well as to make that area a "public forum" open to any type of display.

But the commission insisted that unless someone claims a particular display and submits a written request asking it remain, it would be removed. By Wednesday evening, no one had claimed the Festivus display, and the commission said it would come down; a woman claimed the Zoroastrianism display, which was to stay.

The debate began Dec. 15 when a handmade creche with the figures of Joseph, Mary and baby Jesus was erected by a Bible study group from the First Baptist Church of Bartow.

"The real spirit of Christmas is the birth of Christ," said Marvin Pittman, a retired law enforcement officer and parishioner. "We felt it needs to be in the public eye, so we did it."

Other displays are fine, too, he said, adding, "If somebody wants to do that, it's their right."

And true to form, the site almost immediately sprouted alternative displays, including a simple sign that reads: "Festivus for the Rest of Us - Donated to Polk County by the Seinfeld Fan Club."

The display, a reference to the fake holiday featured on an episode of the television sitcom, did not include the totem of Festivus - a bare aluminum pole instead of a tree. Key rituals of Festivus include accusing others of being a disappointment and wrestling.

Another display celebrating Zoroastrianism was erected by Stella Darby, who wanted to encourage people to research the ancient Persian religion.

Richard Blank, a member of the American Civil Liberties Union, objected to the nativity scene's presence on public property, arguing it violates the constitutional separation of church and state.

"The nativity scene is totally celebratory of the birth of Christ," he said. "Not everyone subscribes to that, and those who do should put it on their own property."

But a board member who voted to allow the creche as part of the "public forum" disagreed with Blank. "A group had asked to display a scene important to their beliefs; I felt we shouldn't suppress their right to do so," said Commissioner Samuel K. Johnson.

Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.




Message 1 of 60 (Msg # 549107:5)
Subject: CHRISTmas
Date: 12/23/04 4:55:48 PM EST

I live here in Polk County and I am ashamed at what this world is coming to. EVERY other religion BUT Christianity is widely accepted. Christmas is a Christian holiday and for the ACLU and other faculties to remove the meaning from this celebration is absurd! Has anyone bothered to read the Declaration of Independence or our Constitution? Our founding fathers were God fearing men. Christmas is not about Santa and pretty lights it is about a gift that was given to ALL of us 2000 years ago. It is up to us to accept it or not. It is fine with me if people choose not to believe in Jesus but all I ask is please don't take that RIGHT away from me. We all have choices in our lives and no one knows what is yet to come but I do know that I am responsible for me. Christmas is a religious holiday and is a celebration of MY Savior's birth. If non Christians do not like this then they need to re -examine the meaning of Christmas and possibly evaluate their perspective in life. The display of a Nativity scene is NOT demonstrative of government in religion it is FREEDOM of SPEECH. I am heartbroken that our great nation is stooping to such levels and people do not have better things to do with their time. Lets all become friends again and get to know our neighbors and ...why can't we all get along?



Message 60 of 60 (Msg # 549107:501)
Subject: Re: CHRISTmas
Date: 12/24/04 2:35:45 AM EST
Author: OlderMusicGeek

"Our founding fathers were God-fearing men." - This is not totally true. Some were, but others were deists, who believed A god - not necessarily the Christian one - created the universe, but then left it alone.

"It is fine with me if people choose not to believe in Jesus, but all I ask is please don't take that RIGHT away from me." "The display of a Nativity scene is NOT demonstrative of government in religion. It is FREEDOM of SPEECH." - That right isn't being taken away. You are allowed to believe. You - or any other believer of a religion - shouldn't be allowed to use public space to display your religion - or else all religions- Christian, Wiccan, Pagan, whatever- should be allowed to display on public property. Otherwise, the government is establishing a certain religion as the proper one.

"Let's all become friends again and get to know our neighbors and... why can't we all get along?" - We can if we all have the same rights and privileges for all our religions.


Message 2 of 60 (Msg # 549107:15)
Subject: Re: CHRISTmas
Date: 12/23/04 5:19:43 PM EST

You're right...and their actions are disrespectful as well. I would never horn in on the expression of another religion in such rude defiance. It's to the point where Christians are being persecuted...in a country that was founded by Christians. My final comment would be that I expect all government and non Christian people to report to work on Christmas.



Message 14 of 60 (Msg # 549107:503)
Subject: Re: CHRISTmas
Date: 12/24/04 2:41:43 AM EST
Author: OlderMusicGeek

"I would never horn in on the expression of another religion in such rude defiance." - When one particular religion is allowed expression on PUBLIC property and others are not, that one is the one doing the horning in.

"My final comment would be that I expect all government and non-Christian people to report to work on Christmas." - I bet many would if they could get their own holidays off and paid for.


Message 3 of 61 (Msg # 549107:145)
Subject: Re: CHRISTmas
Date: 12/23/04 7:16:04 PM EST

>I would never horn in on the expression of another religion in such rude defiance.

That's not what's happening. The town ruled that a nativity scene and scenes that marked any other sort of belief system could be built on town property. The ruling didn't specify how close the other displays should be to the nativity one or what and what couldn't be displayed near the nativity scene.

The point is, you Christians got to show your nativity scene. Now you're jealous that other scenes were allowed whose statements don't agree with yours. But that's one of the aspects of free speech and what it allows.

So what are you Christians whining about so loudly? That you didn't have everything YOUR way?


Message 9 of 61 (Msg # 549107:451)
Subject: Re: CHRISTmas
Date: 12/24/04 12:55:59 AM EST

YOU’RE SICK.

(Name removed) wrote: [[That's not what's happening. The town ruled that a nativity scene and scenes that marked any other sort of belief system could be ]]


Message 10 of 61 (Msg # 549107:505)
Subject: Re: CHRISTmas
Date: 12/24/04 2:49:19 AM EST
Author: OlderMusicGeek

"That's not what's happening. The town ruled that a nativity scene and scenes that marked any other sort of belief system could be displayed..."

"You're sick."

Why is this person sick?


Message 11 of 60 (Msg # 549107:203)
Subject: Re: CHRISTmas
Date: 12/23/04 8:08:04 PM EST

And I am adding my agreement in with the two of you..wholeheartedly. Wonder what would happen if us Christians (about 80% of the population believes in the virgin birth, according to AOL)..got together and revolted against Christmas displays of Santa and reindeer etc?..it is offensive to us..what if we boycott any stores that use Santa in their Christmas advertizing.?..a celebration of Christ's birth has become a commercial spending free for all...and that is offensive to us, but we have tolerated it for years. NOW the 20% are telling us that we can no longer display the nativity without offending someone who doesn't believe the same? Isn't it time that we 80% stop letting the 20% push us around.?



Message 13 of 60 (Msg # 549107:508)
Subject: Re: CHRISTmas
Date: 12/24/04 2:54:53 AM EST
Author: OlderMusicGeek

"(displays of Santa are) offensive to us"

Sorry, but not all Christians find Santa offensive. It is mostly the fundamentalists who do, and they do NOT make up a majority of the Christians in this country.

Also, Santa displays in stores are on PRIVATE property, not PUBLIC property as the nativity display is.

"Isn't it time that 80% stop letting 20% push us around?"

Actually, the Constitution was designed to protect minority opinion and prevent the tyranny of the majority.


Message 27 of 60 (Msg # 549107:23)
Subject: Re: CHRISTmas
Date: 12/23/04 5:28:38 PM EST

Richard Blank, a member of the American Civil Liberties Union, objected to the nativity scene's presence on public property, arguing it violates the constitutional separation of church and state.
This Is A Crock Of Bull!! The Constitution Contains NOTHING That Demands A "Separation Of Church & State"!!
Although The ACLU Has Done A Few Good Things, The Majority Of Its Efforts Misrepresent The American People.
For Those That Choose To Eliminate The Existence Of GOD, Contact The ACLU & DEMAND To Be Allowed To Work On December 25th. As It Is "Just Another Day" For You, Holiday Pay Should Not Apply, As A Matter Of Honor.
The Constitution States; "Congress Shall Make No Law Respecting An Establishment Of Religion, Or Prohibiting The Free Exercise Thereof..."
This Means NO "ONE RELIGION" Will Be Deemed OUR NATIONALLY RESPECTED RELIGION & Anyone Of Faith Can Celebrate Their Chosen Religion As They See Fit.(See "Bill Of Rights", Below)
The CONSTITUTION Restricts The Government From Ruling Over "The People". The BILL Of RIGHTS Was Drawn Up To Address "The People".
The Bill Of Rights, Broken Down, Allows "The People" To Do As They Please, Including The Celebration Of Holidays, Providing Their Actions Do Not Infringe Upon Anybody Else's Rights.
Nobody Should Be FORCED To Celebrate Christmas & The Choice To Keep Your Children Out Of A Choir, That Might Expand Their Talents With Songs Like The Carol Of The Bells, Is Yours Right. But, By CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, No One Has The Right To Eliminate The Culture From OUR Society.
If This Country Were Indeed Governed Under Constitutional Law, We Would Be The EPITOMY Of Freedom & Envied By The Rest Of The World.
It's Really THAT SIMPLE.


Message 31 of 60 (Msg # 549107:517)
Subject: Re: CHRISTmas
Date: 12/24/04 3:03:31 AM EST
Author: OlderMusicGeek

"For Those That Choose To Eliminate The Existence Of GOD, Contact The ACLU & DEMAND To Be Allowed To Work On December 25th. As It Is "Just Another Day" For You, Holiday Pay Should Not Apply, As A Matter Of Honor."

This would be fine, except that others don't get a paid day off for their holidays.

"This Means NO "ONE RELIGION" Will Be Deemed OUR NATIONALLY RESPECTED RELIGION & Anyone Of Faith Can Celebrate Their Chosen Religion As They See Fit."

This is being done, because other religions are being allowed to put up their displays in the same space.


Message 1 of 5 (Msg # 549107:481)
Subject: IT"S ABOUT TIME
Date: 12/24/04 1:47:03 AM EST

Wow, an arm of government has finally stood up for freedom of speech and good sense. We as a nation have gone too far in trying to repress religious expression. If having Christian symbols on display means allowing displays from other religions, then so be it. In this case, festivus is a joke but it's a start.


Message 2 of 5 (Msg # 549107:488)
Subject: Re: IT"S ABOUT TIME
Date: 12/24/04 2:02:24 AM EST

The problem is that now they're trying to do away with Christian symbols, and let all the other ones in. I'm all for having your religious symbols displayed and so on, but don't take away my right as a Christian to worship Jesus. And by the way, I'm a big Seinfeld fan. Festivus is hilarious!


Message 3 of 5 (Msg # 549107:494)
Subject: Re: IT"S ABOUT TIME
Date: 12/24/04 2:19:07 AM EST

[[The problem is that now they're trying to do away with Christian symbols, and let all the other ones in. I'm all for having your religious symbols displayed and so on, but don't take away my right as a Christian to worship Jesus . And by the way, I'm a big Seinfeld fan. Festivus is hilarious!]]

Actually, they HAVE been trying to do away with Christianity for many years, i.e., prayer or even a moment of silence in schools. My point is, if by strengthening Christianities public stand, we need to support other religions, then that's fair. Besides, the Constitution speaks of "religion", not just Christianity.


Message 5 of 5 (Msg # 549107:521)
Subject: Re: IT"S ABOUT TIME
Date: 12/24/04 3:18:56 AM EST
Author: OlderMusicGeek

"Actually, they HAVE been trying to do away with Christianity for many years, i.e., prayer or even a moment of silence in schools."

Some people don't believe in prayers, and most prayers have references that people of other religions don't need to be subject too.


Message 1 of 19 (Msg # 549107:24)
Subject: Majority are Christian
Date: 12/23/04 5:30:59 PM EST

All who come to this nation know without doubt that the majority here are Christian in their beliefs. Why should we have to erase all traces of our faith so as not to offend others? I am offended that I can not publicly display my beliefs; what happened to our freedoms? If you don't like Christians leave, we have gone out of our way to make all feel welcome. Why should we conform to your beliefs or restrictions? We Are "ONE NATION UNDER GOD" "IN GOD WE TRUST" group of God fearing God believing people. When we dismiss God in this Nation look for the end to be near.


Message 19 of 19 (Msg # 549107:524)
Subject: Re: Majority are Christian
Date: 12/24/04 3:22:15 AM EST
Author: OlderMusicGeek

"Why should we have to erase all traces of our faith so as not to offend others? I am offended that I can not publicly display my beliefs; what happened to our freedoms?"

You can display anything you want on PRIVATE property. But on PUBLIC property, everybody - or nobody - should be allowed to have a display.